Thursday, November 24, 2005

Cataloging the Big Brouhaha

(This will be my final updated. December is a new month, and it seems best to leave this behind.

A belated welcome to readers of Phil Johnson, BHT, iMonk, Thinklings, Adrian Warnock, Brad Huston (aka Broken Messenger), and any others who have linked to me. Please feel free to have a look around my blog when you're done reading here.

Now that the dust is settling, I'm writing a post to present links to the recent verbal exchange between Centuri0n (Frank Turk) & iMonk (Michael Spencer). Although I have some opinions, I present these links without any of them; you may read for yourself and draw your own conclusions. Make sure you read the comments--they are part of the conversation.

I will continue to update this as I'm able. If you find a link you think should be added (or find an error), don't hesitate to post a comment.

Central to the discussion is a post by iMonk called "With Regrets, All My Love." This post has now been removed, but is available from him "on request." He published an explanation of why here.
(Note: it appears that the explanation is now password protected; however, the folks at Google cached it. If you care to look, you can find the original essay as well.)

The Original Fide-O Post on Emergent Hippies
Frank's response
Internet Monk mentions Frank's response on BHT
Internet Monk response #1
Matthew Johnson from Boar's Head Tavern responds
Frank's response to "prayer" comments
iMonk's A Day in a Turkish Prison
Frank Turk's Who Is "We"?
Steve Hays' "personal opinion" of Frank (in regard to prayer comment
Broken Messenger--A Theological Blog War
c.t.'s Comment
Phil Johnson weighs in on his site. (He he also posts in the comment thread on Frank's post).
Internet Monk response #3
Jason Robertson of Fide-O posts on iCritics
ScottyB's Post on Polemical Theology
Pedantic Protestant posts on Thanksgiving Turk
Steve Hays--further response after reading reading iMonk
Phil Johnson posts a comic book cover. (BTW--Phil added a comment about this entry to his comic book post, and now my hit counter looks like the water meter the time I had a leaky pipe.)
c.t. makes an analogy to Pilgrim's Progress (including an illustration).
Internet Monk makes a proposal. He also mentions his proposal on BHT. (Update: the proposal has been taken down, but I've posted a partially archived copy.)
Frank responds.
Steve Hays explains how Nicholson's Ironclad Laws of Blogging relate to the current situation.
FIDE-O's response to IM's proposal.
Travis Prinzi posts this @ BHT, and also at his own blog, in response to some comments made.
Deathroe Bodine gives his two cents.
Steve Hays responds to IM's proposal.
Phil Johnson responds to IM's proposal.
Frank responds to a comment made by Marla on this post.
Darryl Dash weighs in on People and Issues.
Adrian Warnock calls for a ceasefire.
iMonk posts on "the continuing effort to create 'Rob Schlapfer II: The IMonk Incident' ".
Brad Huston writes about the Locker Room of the Truly Reformed.
DE at the Thinklings asks Why?
Michael Bates writes about iMonk's Confessional writing, and compares his writing to Mike Yaconelli of The Wittenburg Door.
James White posts on the Tavernistas.
Brad Huston responds to James White's post.
Frank Turk responds to DE.
Brad Huston posts "A Voice of Reason Regarding iMonkgate."
Steve Hays posts "The face at the bottom of the well."
Dan Paden says Give It A Rest.
Frank responds to issues around mental instability.
FIDE-O responds to squealers (a pun, BTW, if you look at the pictures).
An open letter from the Fat Triplets.
Frank answers another open letter.
Steve Hays on Parting thoughts and parting shots.
My own post--Funny How History Repeats Itself.
Phil Johnson posts Ugliness Everywhere. This is a must read for anyone who has been following this thus far, as there are pointers for all involved.
My final post on the subject. I include tips for those who would like to continue reading (if there are any of you left out there).

Michael Spencer stopped by and asked me to include Who? Me? How I Became A Pariah in The Reformed Blogosphere. Reason #11 deals with this issue.

He has also requested (twice) that I include his claim of Centuri0n's "intention to go after" him. I don't see it as the start of this chain, but I am happy to include it here. This claim is made under the comments of A Theological Blog War post, and again (with Frank's response) in comments on Phil's comic book post.

Last Update 1:30am (or so) on 12/01/05


Broken Messenger said...

Phil, just ensured the saga will continue - even though he's pulling the BHT guys leg...

Anyway, you might want to add "the lastest" to your chronicle here.


ScottyB said...


Michael Spencer said...

You might want to read this:

You also might want to note that Mr. Turk stated, on PJ's blog, several days before your first listing, his intention to go after me on his blog.

Carla said...

Funny, brouhaha was the word I used today too.

Must be a hubbub kinda day, eh?


Daniel said...

I was going to do a post on snark words that are most overused - and brouhaha was going to be the first - but then I say your post carla, and thought I will have to wait until the current brouhaha fad ends (I don't want to look trendy :-D)

Carla said...

Daniel, you could have used "hullabaloo". No chance of appearing trendy with that one.
:-) (you'll have to do a spell check, I have no idea how to spell it and I'm too lazy to look it up)

Gummby said...

Phil's use of imbroglio beat the pants off of anything I could have come up with. I was just happy to avoid the word "conversation," as I was afraid there might be comments about Emergent.

Boyd Johnson said...

The original article, "With Regrets, All My Love", is also cached on Google.

Phil Johnson said...

Yeah, but Frank's intifada takes the cake, IMO.

Gummby said...

True, true.

Mark said...

I'm having a hard time figuring out which one of these guys is the christian.

Maybe the scene in Rambo as to who drew first blood has pertinenace here, but frankly someone "emerging" (or "traditonalising") into the image of Christ would neither attack or defend.

I find the entire cultural fascination of all camps a little awkward when I consider we haven't really established the Kingdom of Joy in the Holy Ghost as of yet.

Don't we have better things to do with our time?

Like redeem it?

jane said...

Just to keep it current, I have now responded to Centurion's post about my comment (in his comments, not on my blog...that would be too much fodder for unbelievers who want to condemn Christianity--and me--based on this kind of infighting).

Michael Spencer said...


Interesting thought:

I am, to a certain extent, arguing for the right of all of us to be- in some extent and at some times- "unbelievers."

"Lord I believe. Help my unbelief" is a paradigmatic statement in the Gospels. It is the entire experience of the disciples.

Yet, it is "anti-Christian" and must be ridiculed if it is ever heard among "believers."

jane said...

Michael, I would refer to the instances of doubt and times where our faith is wavering--or even seems (key word) to be gone--as moments or seasons of disbelief, but those who are in a perpetual state of disbelief I call unbelievers, which is the Biblical term for those who completely reject Christ without ever taking the initial leap of faith. However, in general, I have been lately trying to avoid the term "unbelievers" since everyone believes in something, but in this case, I needed something quick and dirty to avoid going into specifics.

Adrian said...

OK. I tried to resist it but couldnt. My twopennies worth is over at my blog and for what its worth I say phooey to both sides of this debate!

Heres My post

Broken Messenger said...

The saga continues. I have another post up today to address some of the 'frat boy' antics of late. Good run down here.


Dr_Mike said...

I don't see how anyone can escape the conclusion that both sides are wrong - not necessarily in what they are saying but - in the manner in which they have and are conducting themselves. I've not followed this present fight long, but long enough to determine that the main perpetrators on both sides are pugnacious rather than peaceable (1 Tim 3.3). It is hard to believe that anyone is walking, talking, or blogging in the Spirit when such behavior is manifested.

And, to poison the well a bit, if the guilty individuals deny such a claim, then they are also lacking in humlity and are forgetting what they've just seen in the mirror. I understand not wanting to look in the mirror or, as I too often do, looking only at those parts of the reflection that I find pleasing.

Those of us - I include myself - who are merely "spectators" share responsibility, too: our continued reading of and commenting on such ungodly posts and/or blogs only encourages the behavior. We are guilty of cheering on two (or more) members as they engage in injurious, self-mutilating behavior in and to the body of Jesus Christ.

We all need to let go of this direct or vicarious indulgence of the sins of ourselves or others and get back to what matters: building up one another, not tearing down.

Michael Spencer said...

Michael Spencer said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Scott Hill said...

I have been floating around the blogosphere to see if who is actually keeping up with this little tiff. If the comments are any indication there are about 25 people who actually seem to give to hoots about what is happening.

I have had bigger fights than that at my family reunion.

Gummby said...

Thanks, Scott. I'll tell you, though, I've had more visits to my blog in the last three days than I have in the previous two months combined. Could be idle curiosity--who knows? I guess those who come here don't necessarily bother to post.

jane said...

Comments and posts don't reflect the silent but concerned readers, which actually make up the majority. Similar to how the media has a tendency to only portray the views of a vocal minority as representative of the entire political party or people grouping. Just because people don't speak up doesn't mean they're not paying attention and/or don't care.

From the stats of the blogs involved, I would say at least a third of the God blogosphere is aware, and I'm guessing that's at least in the hundreds.

Not to mention that this "drama" is just a microcosm of what's happening in evangelicalism. See my retro/metro post (which I joked about renaming TR vs. EM) in my sidebar for more on that...

chamblee54 said...

So this all started out at fide o. I posted a comment at fide o once and came to regret it.
That is a mean bunch there.
Of course, the rest of the jesus worshippers in this affair dont look much better.
This is the sort of thing that happens when you declare a book to be the word of god.